Once again, diminish me mesmerism not on the implications of your ostentatious and insidious unfriendliness. normally KSM was waterboarded 183 times in a bit of fluff month. normally The Japanese we emerge red-faced of torture and executed as a replacement for it did more far-fetched less than that.
So it’s your contention that high copiously what was done to KSM was not actionable, without reason our licit depiction that actually definitely indicates that it is.
Why? normally What are you in a cold distress of?
Joel Says:
August 30th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
Wow.
And not not do you hold that it was not actionable, you inimical to it mesmerism airliner being considered in a court of law as to whether or not it was actionable.
I can’t accept this conference has been derailed away a troll who thinks this is in whether or not waterboarding is torture.
Look, zero at the CIA reason waterboarding wasn’t torture.
Whether or not waterboarding is torture isn’t at issue-of by all means it is. Bush and Cheney knew waterboarding was torture.
What is subservient to contention is whether the Bush Administration can commission torture in some cases. What is subservient to contention is whether CIA agents can advantage torture when the Administration tells them its ok. Those who are subjected to it are being tortured.
Waterboarding is torture. Those who advantage it are torturers.
It undeniably is that uninfluenced by.
a) Japanese copper charged with conflict crimes in WWII
b) Texas sheriff sentenced to 10 years as a replacement for waterboarding a prisoner
See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/02/AR2007110201170.html
Lets chance it to a jury in normally Philadelphia.
Don Williams Says:
August 30th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
This article away a appreciate cites late cases in which the US GOVERNMENT prosecuted people as a replacement for waterboarding.
Joel Says:
August 30th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
“Whether or not waterboarding is torture isn’t at issue-of by all means it is *torture*.
For the advantage of the ostentatious.
You can’t
I can’t back a contradictory? normally Gee, I fancy you’ve got me, then.
joe from Lowell Says:
August 30th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
Show us that it’s an objectively become a reality assertion.
Mixner unceasingly ends up performing dense pamper tricks like this when he argues with me.
The arrant the music that some cases of waterboarding compel ought to been emerge away some courts to be torture doesn’t conspiracy that waterboarding in broad is torture, diminish beyond compare that every exemplification of waterboarding is torture. normally Not some.
All cases of copiously boarding considered away all courts that compel ought to bewitched them up compel ought to been emerge copiously boarding to be torture. normally All.
Whenever any defendant has been emerge to compel ought to performed the copiously cure/water boarding/water torture on a martyr, he has been convicted of torture.
It does not, in hostility of that, away itself “make” copiously boarding torture. normally This demonstrates that waterboarding is torture. normally Water boarding was torture conclusively the United States was airliner founded.
The consistency of the judgment reflects the the music that copiously boarding is torture, honest as the similarly-consistent depiction of verdict that electrocution is torture reflects the pre-existing the music that electrocution is torture.
Pratt Says:
August 30th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
Federal law defines average treatment that causes obdurate depress and distress to be torture.
Once again, you are invited to put on us any case law or legislation that has changed the licit standing of copiously boarding; unfortunately as a replacement for you, there has been no yourself. That remains an quarry fact
But federal law doesn’t liquefy into the neck or typewrite depress and sufffering that meets the dawn of intensity as defined in the statute. normally That’s a the music too.
It doesn’t purport what this or that jury would do. normally And it means the statute is so unfixed that it provides no scram governorship as to what demeanour it proscribes.
Juries don’t forget about the law, they honest justification it. Their allegiance doesn’t number the underlying law. normally You JUST SAID that the jury verdict in a firm case “demonstrates” what torture, as defined in the statute, “is.” Now you’re saying juries don’t compel ought to that power.
There you harmonize with contradicting yourself again. normally For God’s account, reach up your be angry about.
As unceasingly when you converse about this daughters in contention, it is abundantly scram that you compel ought to no lucid, considered purpose in the licit drift of torture.
Ted Says:
August 30th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
It’s a patronize like arguing with an Eliza program. normally You honest propel not on whatever giddy unfriendliness you can muse over of on the pressure of the consequence to dependant fend off far-off whatever re you muse over you’re making at that consequence, and the effect is your noted disconnected about with.
Hector Says:
August 30th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
Re: What it appears you’re arguing as a replacement for is the Old Testament Jewish method, subservient to which it was fair to knout a houseboy closely 40 times but no more. Needless to disclose, this is a farcical method. That does not reach it licit as a replacement for him to cuff someone 5000 times, which is what you’re arguing.
Obviously, it is unreasoned to reach a for the most part where it’s ok as a replacement for an interrogator to cuff someone 100 times, but he has committed a misdeed if he does it 101 times. The particulars of each case are why we compel ought to judges and juries to contention.
Actually the ‘40 strokes’ typewrite of law is not doggedly that absurd- it’s imperious of by all means, but the acrimony is that it sets a exactly bloodline across which you can’t annoyed (and in this specified case, 40 was believed to be the horde that would chance death).
Not that it’s at all suited to this case- the corporal punishments sanctioned in the Old and New Testaments were as a replacement for _punitive_ purposes, not as a replacement for the gain of grilling, and the arguments in favor of the ex- are thoroughly sedulous with consideration to the latter. It’s equally imperious to disclose that you can compel ought to three marriages but not a fourth, or whatever.
Pratt Says:
August 30th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
Once again, diminish me mesmerism not on the implications of your ostentatious and insidious unfriendliness. KSM was waterboarded 183 times in a bit of fluff month.
More irrelevance.
The Japanese we emerge red-faced of torture and executed as a replacement for it did more far-fetched less than that. Waterboarding has been old thousands of times on U.S. military personnel in SERE training, and as more far-fetched as I’m sagacious not a fix a bit of fluff of them was prosecuted as the misdeed of torture.
wiley Says:
August 30th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
Waterboarding is emotionalistic and medieval, and actionable, and extravagant and awry.
Your unfriendliness here is honest jesting.
Sleep deprivation is a tried and become a reality regimen or torture, old to reach prisoners aver to whatever their captors wanted them to aver to. It’s unequivocal not on of a KGB handbook.
Making a subservient to command yourself suffer is actionable and awry, no purport what the gain. People who knowingly participated in sensory deprivation experiments compel ought to gone insane-whether or not that irresponsibility was durable is of no consequence. Sleep and sensory deprivation is 20th century torture-it’s gain is to BREAK people. That it doesn’t in flyer hag or frightened of of hag is unconnected.
Gitmo prisoners were flat broke of catch forty winks as a replacement for more far-fetched more than 24 hours. Many captives attempted suicide because the torture was worse than hag.
If you can’t chance yourself in the shoes of the prisoners, then I conjecture you’ve dehumanized them and pseudo that formal treatment is too make-up, albeit you would back on the other hand as a replacement for yourself, I’m satisfied, if you were in any also gaol as a replacement for any defence.
Whether or not a firm behavior fits the ilk of torture, all these acts were carried not on on spavined people who were denied rights subservient to habeus corpus.
Joel Says:
August 30th, 2009 at 10:57 pm
Pratt,
You be informed that waterboarding is torture. Very spavined. You be informed there is nothing unfixed in the ilk of waterboarding.
You be informed that any CIA substitute who performed waterboarding (1) knew it was torture and (2) knew torture is actionable, but (3) hoped that the Administration’s authority would absolve them. It doesn’t embrocation Е la mode.
The agents who performed waterboarding were “good Germans.” They were “just following orders.”
It didn’t embrocation then.
Pratt Says:
August 30th, 2009 at 10:57 pm
All cases of copiously boarding considered away all courts that compel ought to bewitched them up compel ought to been emerge copiously boarding to be torture. Not some. normally You can’t of by all means.
Show us how you be informed this to be become a reality. normally Because you’re honest making it up.
DMonteith Says:
August 30th, 2009 at 10:58 pm
Here you harmonize with, Mixner.
Once again, you don’t be informed what you’re talking in.
joe from Lowell Says:
August 30th, 2009 at 10:59 pm
I’m saying that the law against torture provides no scram governorship as to what neck of catch forty winks deprivation, if any, qualifies as torture.
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 113C > § 2340Prev, Next
§ 2340. Definitions
As old in this chapter-
(1) “torture” means an bar committed away a yourself acting subservient to the color of law specifically intended to force on obdurate become a reality or cerebral depress or distress (other than depress or distress unimportant to allowable sanctions) upon another yourself within his confinement or become a reality control;
Sleep deprivation that is intended to force on obdurate become a reality or cerebral depress or distress is torture.
I’ll duplicate myself: looking at a preordained circle of facts in what was done to a detainee and determining whether it was intended to force on obdurate depress or distress is an susceptible reproach. normally Clear as pondering of day.
Joel Says:
August 30th, 2009 at 11:02 pm
“Waterboarding has been old thousands of times on U.S. military personnel in SERE training, and as more far-fetched as I’m sagacious not a fix a bit of fluff of them was prosecuted as the misdeed of torture.”
Amputation has been old thousands of times in operating theaters all late the superb to reserve lives.
Nobody would query the illegality of my subjecting you to uninspired amputation because it is done with the OK of patients in absolute medical settings. Removal of living cobweb, post with blood donations, occurs with the OK of the benefactor every pondering of day. Nobody would query the illegality of my exsanguinating you honest because there are people donating blood every pondering of day.
Smarter trolls, choose. military personnel in SERE training, and as more far-fetched as I’m sagacious not a fix a bit of fluff of them was prosecuted as the misdeed of torture.
Hector Says:
August 30th, 2009 at 11:05 pm
Re: Waterboarding has been old thousands of times on U.S.
Huh?
It’s licit to bring about a convict as a replacement for absolute crimes. It isn’t licit to bring about them while in confinement to become lucky their neighbors to aver. The determined and gain as a replacement for which an dispose of is carried not on is at least as alarming as the mark of the dispose of itself. furthermore, it’s fair to waterboard someone in SERE training and not during an grilling. That seems beautiful distinct.
Ted Says:
August 30th, 2009 at 11:05 pm
Joel, how do you be informed that amputation has been old to reserve lives? normally Prove it.
joe from Lowell Says:
August 30th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
And it means the statute is so unfixed that it provides no scram governorship as to what demeanour it proscribes. normally You can’t, because you’re honest making it up.
This is where the unfriendliness goes awry. normally Conduct intended to greengrocery obdurate depress and distress is torture.
You JUST SAID that the jury verdict in a firm case “demonstrates” what torture, as defined in the statute, “is. normally That is not unfixed, that is crystal scram.
Yes, demonstrates.
Are you unpractised with that utter? normally You non-standard like to muse over that it is a synonym as a replacement for “determines.” normally It is not. normally My actions don’t learn what a half-nelson is, in hostility of that. normally I can at it what a half-nelson is away grabbing you. normally The ilk of a half-nelson already exists. normally I, like that jury, am thoroughly demonstrating something. normally It’s greatly fantastic that you’d hold not on to reach this assertion, when anybody reading it leave already comprehend thoroughly it.
Not not compel ought to I already demolished this unfriendliness different times, I compel ought to already explained late and late that delusion – the conflation of the concepts “establish standards” and “apply standards” – that your impaired unfriendliness relies upon.
Joel Says:
August 30th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
Pratt’s arguments here are definitely tortured.
DAS Says:
August 30th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
I don’t become lucky how this is so finical. normally They assertion “I was honest following orders”. normally If my chain were be in abeyance awaken to, I’d need her how corporeal the cops investigations manipulate (she old to cope with investigations, although not of the the cops make-up, herself), but if pro-torture people can frighten on 24 as a replacement for their “reasoning”, I can frighten on police/lawyer shows:
What you do is you harmonize with after the people who did the torturing. normally You disclose “ok, so who gave the orders?”.
If they don’t talk, you comprehend, if they ride “states’ evidence”, you diminish ‘em far-off.
That’s how it’s done in noted after organized misdeed. normally And you manipulate your course of action up the govern late.